[00:00:00] Tearjerker Favorite Book

And as a kid I just loved it and it was sweet, but now as an adult

Yeah ...

when I read it about my child- Yes ... it almost brings me to tears every time I read it. It's

so beautiful.

It's so beau- and so emotional.

Yes.

[00:00:14] Podcast Intro and Topic

Hello, EEPers. Welcome to another episode of Extra English Podcast with Misha- And Larissa. We are two Canadian English teachers talking about life in Canada, our lives, and anything else that might interest us, and hopefully will interest you too.

So join us for another conversation

Today we're going to talk about, uh, books, children's books specifically. Mm. Mm-hmm. Books we liked as children or adult, young adults, and books we read to our kids.

Yeah.

[00:00:48] I Love You Forever

Uh, so to get started, did you have a favorite book as a child, Mischa?

I loved to read as a kid. Mm. So I'm sure there were many, but one I really remember, and partly because I read it now to my son, uh, is I Love You Forever.

Mm, by Robert Munsch.

Classic.

Yes.

Is a Canadian author.

Yeah. I bet you could even quote it.

E- I think I could. But, uh, let me tell you now. Mm-hmm. It's a, it's a really sweet story about-

Mm-hmm ...

uh, a mother who holds her son and rocks him in his sleep as he grows up. Mm-hmm. And then when he, when she's older, he rocks her.

It's so beautiful. I know. It

is really adorable.

And as a kid I just loved it and it was sweet, but now as an adult-

Yeah ...

when I read it about my child- Yes ... it almost brings me to tears every time I read it. It's

so beautiful.

It's so b- and so emotional.

Yes.

Like thinking of aging and-

Yeah ...

yeah. Yeah. It's really good.

So you should check it out if you haven't, and, and it's, it, you, it stays with you.

[00:01:46] Quoting the Classic

Mm-hmm. "

I'll love you forever. I'll like you for always. As long as you're with me, my baby you'll be." Right? Yeah. "

As long as I'm living" was- "

As long as I'm living-" Yeah ... "

you're

my- "My baby

you'll be." ... my baby

you'll be."

Yeah. So sweet.

Mm, that's good.

Yeah.

I did read that one as a child, too, but I don't think we had it, so I didn't read it- Mm ... on repeat.

Yeah.

[00:02:02] Monster at the End

Um, but a book that we read a lot at my house was called There's a Monster at the End of This Book.

I don't think I know that one.

It was, um, it was a Sesame Street book, the-

Cute ...

the television program Sesame Street.

And Grover, who is the blue monster-

Mm-hmm ...

um, was the main character, and all the way through he was saying, "Don't turn the page. Did you, didn't you- ... see the title? It says, 'There's a monster at the end of this book.' I'm scared. Why are you turning pages? Don't do it." And at the end, it's him.

He's the monster?

Yes.

That's cute.

It was fun. It was a funny, um, yeah. I liked the, uh, the graphics. I liked, I liked the, the way my parents would pretend to, you know- Ah ... not wanna tu- Should we turn the page? Should we not? Yeah. Yeah. It was exciting.

That's a really creative idea.

Mm-hmm.

Fun.

Yeah.

Larissa, have you read that book with your kids?

Well, we don't have the paper copy, but we ... Or maybe I have found it recently. Anyway, for a long time we read it on the iPad.

Cute.

Yes, because it's, it's a great story.

Yeah.

[00:03:03] Reading Picture Books Now

But I feel like these days there are so many more picture books.

Yeah.

As an adult, I love reading picture books. I love to go to the, the children's section of the library- Mm-hmm

and pick out a few. And sometimes my daughter, who is 12, will let me read them to her, but often- ... she won't. So I'll just read them for myself because- Well- ... I love them ...

you should come over here.

I should read to your son. Yes.

Yeah, read to my son. He'd love that. Yes,

I should.

Mm-hmm.

[00:03:30] Current Kid Favorites

Do you read a lot of books?

We read a lot of books. Mm-hmm. A lot of them we read over- ... and over. You know how it goes with little kids. Yes. So the, the top ones right now, uh, one is about a bear who lives in the garden of his friend Clementine's house. Okay. And he goes for a walk to the library- Hmm ... and everyone runs away, and all- Oh

the library's closed and the- and he can't figure it out, but it's 'cause he's scary.

Aw.

It's cute. It has a happy ending.

Is Clementine a human?

Clementine's a little human. Hmm. So her and her mother really like George the bear. And in fact, you gave us a large stuffed bear-

Yes ...

that we call George after the George in the book.

So this one is ... We've been reading that one every night for a year.

Okay.

Maybe not every night. A few times a week at least. Yeah,

yeah.

And then his other favorite right now is called Postmouse. Oh, cool. And it's about a mouse who delivers the mail- Okay ... to the other animals. Mm-hmm. It's very cute.

Isn't it amazing how, like, animals can do anything in a book?

Yeah. And sometimes they're animals, like the bear.

Yeah.

Like, he's friends with the humans, but the humans- Yeah ... are also scared of him. Yeah. And as children, it just all makes sense. We just accept it all. Yeah, it is

raw.

In, in fiction, we accept everything.

Yeah. It's true.

[00:04:45] Interactive Books and Literacy

Well, plus I find these days, like your Monster at the End of the Book, there's a lot of kind of interactive.

Yeah.

So we have another one about a cloud that changes shape and does all these things, and you have to give the cloud a high five- Oh ... and give him a hug. My son hugs the book. And shake it at one- Yeah ... it's really fun. Yeah. Which I feel like there weren't as many of those when we were- No ... kids.

I think that came out of research, research in literacy.

Probably. And the idea of interacting with the story, uh, is good for building literacy.

Yeah. That makes sense.

And so instead of just expecting the parents to intuit that-

Yeah ...

they've put it right into the books.

I love it. Yeah.

[00:05:24] Phonics vs Sight Words

Uh, speaking of how kids read-

Mm ...

I've been listening to this really interesting podcast lately about, um, how in Canadian and...

I think it's American actually, but we- Yeah ... we use a similar method here- Mm-hmm ... how reading is taught in schools.

Mm.

And how the method is largely based off of one woman's research.

Okay.

And actually, her research since the time that she did it has been proven wrong-

Wow ...

many times over.

Okay.

It's really interesting.

So the method that many schools use is actually not the most successful or effective method.

Wow.

Yeah.

So what do they recommend on this podcast?

They recommend, like, phonics.

Phonics,

yeah. Or, I mean, similar to how we teach adults, which is what are the letters, what sounds do they make?

Mm-hmm.

And sounding it out.

As a, you know, in contrast to, I think when we were young, at least when I was, there was a lot of focus on sight words. Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Right? Which is learning to recognize what a word looks like, the whole thing. Yeah. Which earlier on is more effective.

Yeah.

But in the long term, it doesn't help you if you come across a new word.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

So being able to sound

it out. Although, there are many words that don't follow the patterns, and they need to be learned as sight words.

Yes. No? But then I think, I mean, I think you can still attempt it.

Hmm.

Right?

Hmm. And then-

And, and you start to learn T and H together make this sound.

Yeah.

G and H sometimes make this sound.

Yeah. So you, you try it using your rules. Yes. Your, your phonetic rules, and if it's not right, then you learn, "Oh, this is an exception."

Exactly. Okay. As opposed to just learning what every word looks

like. Yeah, that's, that's a lot. Yeah. Yeah. So I have a friend who teaches kindergarten, and she- Ooh, interesting

she's been teaching for a long time. And often in education, you know, they, they decide we're gonna do it this way now, and then they say, "We're gonna do it this way." Yes. We call it the pendulum swings. Yeah. Like, uh, method- methodology changes. But she said secretly, she always taught phonics.

It... I love that.

And she was right. Yeah, '

cause she knew. She could tell from the way her students learned-

Yeah ...

that that's the way. That- That's the way to learn to read ...

I mean, I would never think to learn to teach an adult learner sight words.

Mm.

Of course you would do-

Mm ...

a phonics. We don't call it that for adults, or at least that's not what it's called in our field, but it's the same- Yeah

similar concept.

It gets tricky with adults though, because phonics works when you already know a lot of words in a language. 'Cause they often use pictures to match with the letters and the sounds. True. So it's, it, it gets complicated with adult learners, I think.

I suppose.

Or second language learners at least,

yeah.

I mean, when I've learned alphabets in other languages- Mm-hmm ... we are getting off topic, but we'll get back. You often do, like alphabets usually are learned with a word.

Mm.

Like the first letter in the Hindi alphabet is for mango- Mm-hmm ... which I can't pronounce, so I'm not gonna say it. Um, anyway.

I would believe you.

Off topic. Uh, I think this is interesting because our most popular YouTube video ever-

Mm-hmm ...

is a video that can be used for phonics.

Yeah, it's true, about the vowel sounds.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

It's by far our most popular video. Yep. And it's about the sounds of the vowels from a phonics-type perspective.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, people just know. They know what they need, and they know where to find it.

That's right.

[00:08:41] Picture Books for Adults

So speaking of adult learners- Yeah ... and going back to books-

Uh-huh ...

I like to use picture books in my class with adult learners. And- Interesting ... sometimes, when I first started, I felt the need to give a disclaimer.

Yeah.

Like, I know this is a child's resource. I know- And you're not a child ... you are adults, yes. Yeah. But there's beauty in this, and there is good learning to be had, and I've chosen it for a reason.

Mm-hmm.

And, and the resources I choose are not, like... They're, they're not animals. They're They're not, they're not monster at the end of the book.

They're not.

They're not even, like, I'm, I'm, we're all scared of you at the library. Like- Yeah ... they're, they're set in our world, and they're all with people, but the, the pictures, the illustrations are beautiful, and the message is clear. And so I recommend to my students to read picture books, partly because you have the pictures-

Yeah

to help you understand what's going on. Definitely. You have the context clues. But also, especially now, there are so many beautiful stories.

They're really, they really, really are.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

[00:09:54] Tree Metaphor Story

Uh, we have one about, it's my favorite book-

Mm ...

about, uh, how we're all trees.

Oh.

Like, m- uh, we're people.

We're people.

Yes.

But the book is saying, like, um... It's just making a metaphor of a human like a tree, and the branches- Mm ... and the wind and the roots and the... And it's so beautiful. And at the end of the book, the little boy says to this woman, "I can see the tree in you."

Oh.

I could almost cry just thinking about it. It's just this really beautiful- Yes

lovely metaphor. I love it so much. And the little boy in the book looks like my son.

Oh.

So he always thinks it's him. It's my favorite. It is him. But this, like, for an adult, I would just read that

book-

Yes ... myself. Yeah, for sure. It's so lovely. And I actually want to read that book. I'm, I'm going to- I'll lend it to you

before I leave here- Mm-hmm ... because, um, I'm making a quilt all

about trees. Like, I'm- Ooh ... I'm in my tree era. You're a tree. I am. We are. We, we are. Exactly. Oh, I'll lend it to you for sure. Thank you. Mm-hmm.

[00:10:34] Tween Fantasy Reads

So we were talking about stories we liked as little kids. Mm-hmm. And then growing up a little as a young adult, I, I loved to read, first of all.

It was my favorite activity. Mm. I would sit... You could shout my name, and I wouldn't hear you. I would get so absorbed in what I was reading. Um, I really liked as a, like, tween- Mm-hmm ... uh, or older child

Fantasy novels.

Ah.

Like anything with a dragon- Mm ... magic. I loved that kind of stuff.

Did you like princesses?

I didn't really care so much about

prince or princess. No, you wanted, you wanted action.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

And, like, fantastical things. Mm. You know? There was one author, Anne McCaffrey, she's quite famous, who would write about people and they'd bond with a dragon.

Oh.

[00:11:36] Chosen by Dragons

You know, like a dragon would choose them.

Okay.

S- like, people having special lives, I liked. Oh. I liked this.

And did you imagine... Like, did you see yourself in the story? Were you, were you one of the characters? Did you identify w- more with the dragons?

I think I, I liked... I mean, if I had stumbled across a dragon in real life-

I would have hoped it bonded with me.

[00:11:58] Hero Journey Appeal

I do think as a kid especially, even as an adult, there is something nice about reading someone who's, like, special or chosen- Mm ... or different and imagining yourself being that.

Mm-hmm.

You know?

So for sure, I think that was part of it. That's a very common theme. Mm-hmm.

The theme of, of the- Like the, the voyager. What is- Yeah.

The hero. The hero. Yeah. The

hero's journey. That kind of

thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:12:20] Ramona Quimby Memories

What about you when you were a little older, post-picture book era?

So I actually didn't read very much.

Oh, no?

No. Hmm. I, I did like the Ramona Quimby series.

Yes. That was very popular when-

Yeah

Larissa and

I were young.

She's, she's the character. She was a girl probably my age, probably like grade f- four or five, I would imagine. Yeah, I think

so.

Um, and she had little adventures. She was a bit of a character. Yeah. Like, she's... I remember she squeezed out the whole tube of toothpaste one time and got in big trouble.

Cute. It's really stuck with you.

I think part of me was like, "What would happen if I did that?"

Yeah. That was very relatable to-

Yes ...

your real life.

Exactly.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. So I did read those series. Mm-hmm. But, um, it wasn't, it wasn't something that I, I was really passionate about really until I was an adult.

Interesting. Yeah. Like, as a teenager, not really?

No.

Oh, wow.

[00:13:14] Why Fiction Hooks Us

And part of it is I think that I didn't, I didn't get hooked on a series or a type.

Yeah.

So I would, I would read for school, of course. Yeah, yeah, of course. And I would read some nonfiction, but that's not exciting. No. I need to get lost in a good story.

Totally.

And I didn't, I didn't have that. I think my parents also didn't really read a lot of fiction.

Yeah, fair enough.

And so it wasn't part of our family culture. We had lots of books around-

Mm-hmm ...

but nobody was sitting around reading a novel.

They were more for learning than entertainment.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. I see. Which is totally valid, right? Ab- Read for learning. Absolutely. It's a great- Yeah ... it's a great reason to read.

No one is suggesting you shouldn't do that.

But to develop a love for reading-

Yeah ...

I really think y- it, it needs to be fiction to really capture your, your s- imagination.

Yeah. I wonder, I wonder if everyone agrees or if there are people who feel that fascination with nonfiction.

I wonder.

I don't. I'm with... I'm like you.

Yeah.

So I'm curious. But I

guess if you're passionate about a topic...

Yeah, like history or something.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. That could be. But you could argue history is not fiction, but it's stories.

Yes. We both love a story.

Yeah.

This is why we're here. That's true. There are still stories.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm. Yeah. I don't know.

Interesting.

Yeah. Um, if you are someone who loves reading but not fiction, please share with us. Yeah. Like, what... how, how did you get your start and, and what is it about, about reading that draws you?

Yeah. We're curious.

[00:14:47] Reading Anywhere Anytime

So I have a question for you.

Mm.

You said you were- you always had your nose in a book.

Always.

Couldn't distract you. No. Did you have a special place you read?

No, anywhere.

Anywhere?

Yeah. The beach, other people's houses- ... the table, the couch, my bed until 2:00 in the morning. Anywhere.

Other people's... Like, you would- Yeah ... go to someone's house-

Yep ...

and they'd be like, "Hey, where's Mischa?" Yes.

If I went anywhere, I had a book.

Okay.

Yeah. We would go... I remember one night we went to a friend's house for dinner, friends we saw often, so they were like family. Okay. Mm-hmm. And I was reading, and the... multiple of them were shouting my name, and I didn't hear- ... 'cause my book was so good. Yeah. Any- everywhere, anywhere. Not in the car- Hmm

'cause that makes me a little...

Nauseous?

Nauseous.

Yeah.

But everywhere else. Yeah. Oh. Mm-hmm. Reading. Did

you have a favorite spot, though? Like, you could read anywhere, but did you have a, a favorite spot, a place where, in your mind, you still associate with a book, or just life

was

associated with a book?

Yeah.

Honestly, it was really my favorite activity. Okay. I mean, probably, I spend the most hours reading in bed at night. Sure. Yeah. But no.

[00:15:54] Clan of the Cave Bear

You know, though, when you mention history-

Mm-hmm ...

that makes me think of a memorable series I read when I was young-

Mm-hmm ...

which was historical, pre... It was, like, pre- Prehistoric, I guess

Prehistoric- Yeah

history.

It was kind of a fictionalized imagining of homo sapien life.

Okay.

So like life way back.

Yeah.

And it was recommended to me by the librarians, 'cause all the librarians knew me at the local library. Mm-hmm. So I was looking for... And they'd see me come, you know, I'd find a new author and I'd read all their books.

And then I'd find another one and I'd read all their books. So one, one librarian recommended this series to me, and I think it was, I should look it up, at least three or four books, and they're all like 1,000 pages. Wow. So I think part of her motivation was probably this'll hold her for, over for a while.

Yeah. But it probably didn't.

I mean, they were very good. Those stories were so... It was such an emotional... I remember sobbing at this one- Oh ... particular part. Yes, it was such a good series, very popular. It's called Clan of the Cave Bear. But I was about 11 or 12 at this point, and they were adult books written for adults.

Okay.

And they had some very adult scenes.

Uh-huh.

Which I was shocked- Mm-hmm ... to come upon as a child.

Mm-hmm.

And not interested in. I would just skip over them while like, you know-

Yeah ...

blushing or whatever.

Yeah.

But then I remember bringing it back, the first one, to the librarian, asking for the second, and thinking, "She knows-"

what's in here. Does she think I've read that?" You know, like feeling this like, the awkward kid-ness around that kind of stuff.

Yeah. But, but- But she must have thought you could handle it if she recommended that series to

you. Yes. And I, it wasn't the majority of the story. Mm. It was small parts that I just wasn't interested in, so.

Yeah.

Bam. Yeah. Mm. And the books, the stories were just so good.

Ah.

Yeah, it was a great one.

[00:17:46] Preferred Genres Today

So do you still love, um, a fantasy book or a- Yeah ... like what's your preferred?

I think now I like, like our world, like this series was, but a little bit different.

Mm.

So for example, there's another Canadian series called The Trickster Series.

Mm-hmm.

Written by an indigenous author. Yeah. That's our world, but plus some like mystical, magical sort of elements to it.

Okay.

So I like this, like not a totally different universe.

Yeah.

Our world, but plus a little-

Yeah ...

extra layer.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Good.

Yeah.

[00:18:23] Characters Over Plot

What about you?

Uh, I am more interested in the characters-

Yeah

than the story.

Mm-hmm.

Um, I mean, I do like a plot.

Who doesn't?

But, um, yeah. So for example, I've always, I've never wanted to watch the Star Trek series. Why?

Mm-mm.

Because they're, like, doing things in space. I don't care what they're doing.

Alyssa-

They're not really growing as people.

No, you're wrong.

Oh.

The character development in that series is very good.

Okay.

I'd- I wouldn't have chosen to watch a lot of that, but my brother loved it, and we watched the TV that he said we were going to watch. Watched a lot of that. But, but I hear you. It's not your-

Well, maybe I didn't watch enough to get to know the characters well, but- And

TV is different than books.

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. But a story that,

that- If I don't love or care about-

Yes ... the

characters-

Yeah ...

I'm not gonna finish the book.

You want the people and their character development to be the main-

Yeah ...

plot.

Yeah.

That makes sense. I get it. Yeah. Yeah. You, it's nice to care about-

Mm-hmm ...

it's nice to get so involved in a story that you feel invested- Yeah

in the characters.

And so to bring us back to children's books-

Mm-hmm ...

it could be a bear or a mouse.

Listen, I love George- It could be anything ... the bear. Post Mouse-

Mm-hmm ...

he's doing good work.

[00:19:47] Personalized Kids Books

Uh, speaking of characters-

Mm-hmm ...

again, talking about modern children's books and ways they're different from what we had, and also the same, but my son has a book that has his name in it-

Mm

that a friend of ours gifted us that she ordered online where you can, like, put in name, and she chose the appearance of the little character.

Yes.

So it's a book about him. That's so fun.

Is it a finding book?

It is a finding book.

Okay, so we have the same. My kids have the same book.

Oh, cool.

I think there was a time when they were really advertising, and it- Mm-hmm

it's a great gift.

Oh, so we love it.

So there is a story to it. Yes. Like, every, every page you're... I think mine's time travel, so you're in-

Okay ...

different time periods, but it's a search and find book- Yeah ... and you're looking for, yeah, like, yourself-

Yeah ...

plus a bunch of other things.

Yes.

Yeah.

So fun.

Very cool.

And I think this was never possible-

No ...

until we had, like, self-publishing- Yes ... and really easy access to printing, and-

That's right. Things have changed. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Plus, for you, for me, and I, I'm sure it was the same for you, I was never gonna stumble across a book with Misha. No. Not an English-speaking book in Canada about a character named Misha.

My name is not very common. No. Larissa's name is also- No,

I haven't seen a Larissa-

No ...

as

a main

character.

So, and same for my son. His name here is unusual.

Yeah.

So it's nice to be able to, like,

have

something- Yeah ... that has his name. Yeah. Yeah. Super fun.

Yeah, I really love that. Mm.

[00:21:16] Wrap Up and Share Yours

I'm sure there are many more books we could talk about.

Mm. You and I both like to read.

Mm-hmm.

But we'll stop there for this episode and maybe pick this conversation up another time.

Yeah. But if you have a favorite, especially a children's book-

Mm-hmm ...

that you would love to share, we'll read it.

Yeah. Let us know.

Thanks for joining us for another episode.

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